Discussion Forum

This is Poltergeist’s Discussion Forum. Here, I will rotate out discussion topics for us to discuss as a group. Feel free to simply answer the question, or respond to others’ comments below. I will weigh in with my thoughts, as well. Obviously I love Tidus, but I welcome and encourage objective views, even if they reflect Tidus negatively. In a couple months, I will close this discussion and start a new one.

To participate, simply comment on this page. I look forward to reading your thoughts!

Spoilers: If you refer to spoilers in other games, please warn us at the beginning of your comment. Please note that you do not need to mark Final Fantasy X spoilers, as they are likely to come up in in-depth discussion. New fans, please be mindful of that fact before reading through comments.

Without further adieu, here is our first discussion topic:

How do you think Tidus weighs against other Final Fantasy (or RPG) leads? In addition to personality and appearance, think about the impact these characters made on other characters and their worlds.

5 Responses to Discussion Forum

  • Mikari says:

    I think Tidus is a pretty significant character. Without him questioning everything, trying to understand and encouraging Yuna, the cycle might have continued unchanged. The fayth were tired of dreaming, living in the world they wished they could have. Tidus represented change, he was like the incarnation of the fayths’ true wishes to end the cycle clothed in the image of the ideal world they couldn’t have. Comparing him to others, such as Cloud from FFVII, as much as I appreciate Cloud, Avalanche would have gone on their quest without him anyway and it would have been slightly different, but probably led to the same result sooner or later. Both Cloud and Tidus caused their share of confusion and had foggy ideas about their true past, but in the end, it was Tidus’ conclusion that carried the most weight. Though one could argue that rather than the fayth making the choice they did because of Tidus’ influenc, Tidus was the way he was because of the fayth’ determination. If they were not to stop the dream, Tidus wouldn’t have reached out so strongly as a manifestation of their will. So in that sense Tidus represented what was to be, built upon the ruins of what never again could be. Unlike other leads, Tidus is more of a concept, a driving force made from a collection of strong wills rather than a person changed by them, he is those wills, that faith. And I’ll put my Puella Magi comparison in its own post for the sake of organization…

  • Mikari says:

    This article has a lot of spoilers for pretty much all the biggest plot points of Puella Magi Madoka Magica. I should also mention that surprising plot twists are a big part of what makes Puella Magi so enjoyable and a series that you’ll want to watch at least twice, first to be surprised at the revelations and again to see everything in a new light, knowing what’s really going on.

    Puella Magi takes place on earth, which, like Spira, is trapped in a cycle of death. The universe is basically running out of energy faster than it can produce it. To prevent other planets from becoming barren, a race of aliens known as Incubators are trying to release energy into the universe. That energy comes from human emotion, with the most plentiful source being adolescent girls. Kyuubey, an Incubator, goes around offering the girls wishes in exchange for granting them magical powers along with the duty to use them to fight witches. What he doesn’t mention is that magical girls are destined to eventually become witches themselves. In Kyuubey’s mind, the sacrifice is worth it for the good of the universe as a whole and if someone doesn’t ask for more information, then it is because they don’t care, or they think that what they know is enough. As an alien without emotions like those of humans, Kyuubey isn’t exactly evil, but he’s not really doing humanity a favor, though he has no real hatred for humans either.

    All of this can be compared to Spira. The world there is also trapped in a cycle of death and while it’s not about an energy crisis, similarly, the heroes are destined to become the new villains, as the final summon becomes the new Sin. Yevon, the organization, might have started out with good intentions, wanting to show Yu Yevon, the vengeful summoner spirit, that the world regretted the machina war, in hopes of appeasing him and making him pass on. But the organization was corrupted over time and grew into a cult that forgot about its true purpose and instead made Yevon into a entity that was justly punishing the world for its crimes, with Sin being reborn supposedly because of a lack of atonement. The more the people invested in the organization, the more corrupted it became, just as the more magical girls tried to defend the world, the more witches there would eventually be.

    Kyuubey and the Yevon organization are parallel to each other. Not all the Yevonites are corrupt, some truly believe they are doing the right thing. Both Kyuubey and Yevon, although with different reasoning, deal in deception for a sort of gain. Going back to the fact that not all Yevonites are bad, Mami fits in as a representation of the well meaning Yevonites. She is a magical girl who is unaware of the truth and honestly tries her best to help the world fighting wishes. She represents a misinformed person with good intentions and incorrect information, a sacrificed summoner or hard working devote.

    In Spira, time moves forward, but history does not, as the same events play out again and again with different people. In Puella Magi, time is stuck in a loop because of the time traveler, Homura, who keeps going back in time to try to save her best friend, Madoka. Homura’s role has a strong connection with Auron and Jetch. Jetch was the first person from the dream Zanarkand who went to the real Spira, his relationship with Tidus is rather rocky, but even if Tidus claims to hate him, I don’t think he really does, he just wants Jetch to recognize him and value him.

    Homura is at first portrayed as an enemy to Madoka and her friends because we don’t know what her true intentions are until Kyuubey’s real plans and Homura’s time travel are later revealed. Madoka and Homura are not initially portrayed as friends because Homura has traveled back in time in so many occasions and failed to change history, she’s just sick and tired of people thinking she’s crazy or a liar, no one believing the future she describes, and she’s especially tired of watching Madoka die. Just as Jetch wants Tidus to be strong, Homura wants Madoka to live, she wants to save her from becoming a magical girl, from falling for Kyuubey’s tricks and dooming herself, even if it means she has to be harsh to achieve that.

    Auron witnessed the truth, just as Homura did, and for the longest time, they were the only ones in their groups who knew. They both suffered the frustration of a harsh reality they could only struggle to change. Auron lost his life and so did Homura, as her time travel powers came from a wish she made in the original timeline. Auron walks as an unsent, and Homura as a magical girl, who will one day become a witch. I feel that Auron would fade away if he wasn’t working towards his goal, his mission keeps him rooted among the living. The same applies to Homura. Magical girls turn into witches when their emotions darken consumed by the stress and despair of their endless battles, if Homura ever lost hope, she would die, her energy transformed into a witch to be slain to feed the endless cycle.

    So where does Tidus come in? Tidus is Madoka. The titular character spends most of the anime with no clue of what’s going on, trying to get answers from Homura, while the other girls looked at her as an enemy because she is Kyuubey’s enemy. Similarly, we see a connection between Homura and the Al Behd as well, though I think her strongest connection is Auron. Tidus also spends most of the game being swept from one place to another. He is unable to return home at first, just as Madoka is involved in the magical girl happenings because her friends are involved and she feels the need to follow them along. She could step out if she wanted, just as Tidus could choose to start a new life in Spira instead of going on a pilgrimage, but Madoka is not capable of abandoning her friends any more than Tidus would consider abandoning Yuna after they get to know each other.

    Because of history being reset so many times in the Puella Magi world, the energy from the timelines uniting focused on the cause. That cause was not Homura, she was the time traveler, but her reason to wish for the power that allowed her to do so was to save Madoka, and the reason she kept resetting time was also to save Madoka, so the energy concentrated on Madoka, who remained unaware of it. Similarly, Tidus was the product of the fayth’s dream, of their wishes and their will. Their energy focused on Tidus, who was far more special and unique than he was aware of.

    Tidus’ attempts to understand the situation around him and to be therefor Yuna and their friends, are practically identical to what Madoka goes through. You can see both characters struggling to understand, getting stressed and in the end, becoming strong enough to make the final sacrifice and break the cycle, even if it means their own death. With Yu Yevon defeated for good, the cycle of Spira would end, but Tidus would disappear. Madoka, making use of all the energy that had accumulated in her, made the final wish, she wished away all the witches that ever were and ever would be. As such, she became a magical girl and eventually a witch, but her wish covered her own fate as well. The paradox caused Madoka to be erased from the world and from everyone’s memories, except Homura, who lost her time traveling powers after time reset itself on one last occasion. Likewise, Tidus disappeared as well, since the fayth’s dream ended.

    Neither Madoka nor Tidus was gone completely, albeit they were expected to, due to their situations. Madoka went on to exist as the concept of hope, ironically, you could say that Tidus was born as the concept of hope, so what Madoka became as an incorporeal being, was what Tidus was as a body of thoughts born of a dream. Initially, no one remembered Madoka, just as there should be no record in Spira of Tidus, as he wasn’t really born there. However, Yuna’s strong bond with Tidus ends up bringing him back in the sequel. Madoka isn’t shown to return, but because of their friendship Homura recovers her memories of her and is shown to be able to hear her voice.

    One of the things that stood out to me about Puella Magi was that Madoka seems to be constantly present yet not at the center of the action. She’s the titular character, it’s her story, but she doesn’t even get magical powers until near the end, she doesn’t know what’s going on most of the time, and she’s being swept away by events outside of her control, unaware of how she’s an important part of something bigger. Sometimes I question Madoka’s right to have her name in the title, as I question Tidus’ saying “this is my story.” Puella Magi felt more like it was about Homura, even if she didn’t deliver the final blow, she got the most character development, and was more often than not at the center of the main happenings, plus she carried the most causality. As for FFX, Yuna was always at the center of everything, it was her character that changed to become stronger, and it was Auron who plotted, planned and pushed things along from the background, while Tidus simply tagged along as little more than a witness more often than not, just as Madoka did.

    Yet there is another thing that was later said in FFX which helps to explain the importance of these characters, “this is our story.” Tidus’ story isn’t only about himself, his story is about all the people around him that he influences. Madoka’s friendship with Homura was the cause of Homura’s actions, which brought forth many consequences. Auron’s promise to Jetch, Jetch’s feelings for Tidus, Yuna’s feelings for Tidus, and Tidus’ constant presence as a motivation and inspiration made him as much as a catalyst as Madoka. In short, Tidus’ story, just like Madoka’s story, helped shape many other stories, and was in turn shaped by them.

    • Todd says:

      Wow, thank you so much for your thoughts, Mikari!

      I love that you see Tidus as a catalyst; that is a super interesting view, but one that holds a lot of merit. Without Tidus, much of Spira probably would not have changed, kind of like how you mentioned in your comment above. I, too, believe Tidus was necessary for the evolution of Spira. So many people were just accepting the death spiral of Spira, and blindly following Yevon, without realizing what a mess the religion was. Tidus realized something wasn’t right, and questioned it.

      I want to see Puella Magi Madoka Magica now! Thanks for introducing me to it! Is it easy to find?

  • Mikari says:

    Madoka has been dubbed & is pretty easy to find in English and Japanese. I didn’t like the 3rd movie, it felt like an ooc cash grab and the first 2 are just series summaries. You should definitely watch the series though. I watched it twice once without spoilers and a second time to appreciate all subtle hints, it’s a series you can enjoy regardless of if you know what’s coming. Though if you haven’t been too spoiled you should just watch and enjoy the twists.

    I consider Yevon to be more of a cult than a religion but that’s another topic I guess. Sorry it took me so long to reply. I tend to forget to reply outside of twitter and the other sites I visit regularly.

    • Todd says:

      Thanks! I’ll have to check it out.

      Yevon will absolutely be a Dicussion Forum topic at some point. And no problem! I do that too. I’m glad you stop by when you do, though! I appreciate the support and activity/interaction!

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